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Dale Sky Jones is the executive chancellor of Oaksterdam University, an internationally recognized cannabis education institution based out of Oakland, California.

In this podcast episode, Dale is interviewed by renowned cannabis advocate Bianca Green for the first episode of her Spark the Conversation podcast, produced in partnership with Ganjapreneur. This interview was recorded last fall during the Spark the Conversation bus tour across California, during which Bianca and her team bused around the state talking to cannabis advocates and experts in preparation for the November elections. This means that the conversation took place before California, Nevada, Maine, and Massachusetts voted to legalize adult-use cannabis — and before Donald Trump’s victory in the U.S. presidential election.

The following interview contains some truly amazing stories from Dale. Tune in below to hear about how Dale quit her corporate career to dedicate her life to cannabis education and activism; her experience being targeted in a 2007 federal raid on Oaksterdam University; the moment she realized that motherhood, specifically the ingrained instinct to shelter and protect her children, goes hand-in-hand with advocating for safer and smarter cannabis policies; and much, much more.

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Read the transcript:

Bianca Green: Welcome to the Spark The Conversation podcast in partnership with Ganjapreneur.com. I’m your host, Bianca Green. I’m super stoked today to be talking to a drug war veteran and dear friend, Dale Sky Jones. She is the chancellor of Oaksterdam University, a mother, a wife, and an overall badass. She inspired me many, many years ago in a lot of advocacy realms and she’s been fighting the good fight for a long, long time.

She has seen Oaksterdam get raided. She has seen people have their children taken away for being cannabis patients, and today I’m really excited to sit down with her so she can share a bit of her journey and talk about where we’re at today. Dale was very instrumental in making sure that California legalization was a priority. She put together the reform California Coalition last year and then that morphed into some amendments that went into 64.

Now cannabis is legal. I did get a chance to sit down with her before legalization and I think by the time this podcast comes out, she’ll be out of the closet that she had found out she was pregnant the same day of recording the podcast, so I’m super super stoked to sit down with her. I admire her so much, and she drops knowledge every time she speaks, so I’m looking forward to this today.

Hi, we’re at Oaksterdam University with Dale Sky Jones today. Thank you so much for being here with me. You and I have been friends for quite some time, drug policy comrades to a degree. Coming to Oaksterdam over the years to visit you, why don’t you tell me and our listeners what it is exactly that Oaksterdam University’s mission is and what you guys do here.

Dale Sky Jones: Sure. Well, I’m just thrilled to have you Bianca, so thank you for bringing Spark The Conversation and just lots of fun. Oaksterdam University, I think a lot of folks think that they know what we are, but having not been through the doors, it’s hard for them to contemplate. Some people just picture it’s some dark smokey room where we’re doing joint rolling classes in the back.

The reality is, we were founded back in 2007 with a mission to provide quality training for the cannabis industry. This was back before it was an industry. In fact, we got a lot of guff’s that we even called it an industry. It was still very much a movement, but we believed that the only way to be taken seriously, the only way to actually become regulated was to start treating ourselves as an industry and self-regulating in the process. That started with education.

Over time, it began really focused just trying to learn how to grow their own medicine, how to be a qualified patient, and their rights and responsibilities under the law. Our founder first started teaching classes, honestly just to get people to show up to the City Council meetings. He thought, “Well, what do people want from me? They want to learn how to grow? What do I want from them? I want them to show up.”

He put out this idea of education almost as a quid pro quo, “I’ll teach you to grow and then I need you to help me go move this policy because it’s going to take a lot of hands to lift, so we’ll give you the horticulture class, but first, first you have to take the prerequisites which are politics, history and legal.”

What that did was convert otherwise law-abiding citizens who just wanted to become a student into freedom-fighters because once you know, you can’t unlearn what you just found out, so that was the trick was, “Get in here and let us tell you the truth and then by the way, we’ll teach you how to grow and once you know the truth, you can’t help but join the fight.”

The students that first came to us were just trying to be patients and then they wanted to get a job, so we started adding classes and it went beyond just the, “Here’s how to be a patient. Here’s how to cultivate for yourself.” We started adding cooking with cannabis and extraction classes, and then an advocacy and an economics class, and then a budtending class, which we quickly renamed “Patient consultant” because I swore I wouldn’t call it “Budtender” until we legalized, so hurry up so I can change the name of my class.

Then it slowly went from people trying to find a job to people wanting to start a company. We got this influx of entrepreneurs and folks that were looking to invest and understand. Then the federal raid happened, the smack down happened, and it went back to bam, people just learning how to be qualified patients and grow in the closet because everyone was scared back out of what had been going on here in California.

Over the last couple of years since Colorado, Washington have passed, since California has finally enacted the MCRSA and other states including Guam, go Guam, nobody ever mentions Guam, not much love for Guam, that it’s progressed to the point where now we’re training regulators, we’re training legislative analysts, we’re training bureaucrats on how to regulate the cannabis industry. I dare say that that’s what I’ve almost had the most fun with lately.

It’s very heartening to see bureaucrats, people that were very fearful. Now that it’s their job to do so, they are embracing it wholly. These folks are trying to do a good job. They’re trying to do it the right way the first time, and that is inspiring for me when I see our government officials really trying to get it right for Californians.

Bianca Green: That’s amazing because it was so opposite when you first started freedom-fighting for the plant. Tell me about some of the roadblocks that you hit when you first came out as an advocate and educator in the cannabis space.

Dale Sky Jones: Well, there’s a couple times that I can think of that were really informative for me. The first was, I got a call from a patient, and this was back when I was still working with doctors down in Orange County. This is how I got started in the cannabis industry was managing doctors who worked for LA General and they saw a lot of patients come through but they weren’t allowed to talk about cannabis with them. This group of doctors formed a side clinic where each of them would work one day a week at this clinic doing medical cannabis recommendations.

Bianca Green: What year was this?

Dale Sky Jones: This was back in 2007 in Orange County.

Bianca Green: Wow.

Dale Sky Jones: Yeah. Can we say right-wing conservative?

Bianca Green: Where they’re still not very friendly.

Dale Sky Jones: No.

Bianca Green: They wouldn’t, Irvine wouldn’t even, didn’t accept our bus tour.

Dale Sky Jones: Irvine is exactly where my office was.

Bianca Green: Yeah. Yeah. It’s still-

Dale Sky Jones: I’m very familiar with the conservative Orange County, but what was remarkable is there were task forces, these roaming task forces over Tri-County areas that were just looking for doctors to try to put them out of business. They were trying to get doctors to either do questionable recommendations or get paperwork that they could somehow turn in total setup.

I got a phone call from a patient who had actually gone through the process, and while he was in the office, he says, “Congratulations Dale.” It’s like, “For what?” He’s like, “You run the best office that we have in Southern California. You’re the only office that wouldn’t let them in.” I was like, “I’m sorry. What are you talking about?”

He’s like, “Well, my brother is on this task force and they’ve been trying to get an appointment with you for the last three months, and the only way they could get in was to send me because I’m a real patient, and you almost didn’t give me a recommendation, so clearly you guys are doing it right, you’re doing it well.”

In fact, one of the doctors that worked for me no more than you’ve said yes because you wanted people to try other stuff. Whether or not you agree with that, this was how we had to operate in conservative Orange County California. Just realizing that we had been under the microscope like that and I remembered some unusual calls of people trying to get an appointment but they couldn’t really tell me what was wrong with them, so I just simply don’t set appointments for people that didn’t seem to have their act together.

It turns out it was because they were used to just winging it and getting what they wanted, so just realizing that I came that close and the actions that we did protected five doctors from potentially being in trouble for something that was truly helping people, that was my first taste that even though you think what you’re doing is right, even though you’re doing it entirely by the letter and the spirit of the law, there is still people looking for you to take you down and make an example of you.

They will use any thread, any thread they can, they will yank on and unravel you and that’s why you’ve got to keep it tight. That’s part of what we teach at Oaksterdam is how to set yourself up for success, how to prepare for the worst and then we’re going to show you how to wing it because everyone is still very much winging it these days. You just have to find your parameters.

The next time that I truly personally had, it’s the only time I’ve ever been attacked in my mind for being an advocate or an activist on any level. I kept waiting to be attacked, I kept expecting to be attacked and I was very fearful the first few years. I didn’t know how to talk about it. I didn’t know how to introduce the concept of what I did for a living. I would just say, “Oh, I work in medicine. I work with patients,” but I wouldn’t find ways to explain what I did or why I did it because I was always afraid that somebody was going to attack me.

Again, remember, this was 2007, 2008. I just quit a corporate job where I was fully vested to go do what? Move to California to do what? They thought I was crazy. I couldn’t explain that to people, so I lied to everyone about what I was going and doing because it felt right to be doing it but I hadn’t quite figured out how to explain it. I just didn’t talk about it.

I said, “I work in medicine,” and if they asked me anything else, I’d start talking about billing and people would just shut down, turn off, and tune out, so it was a really easy way to never talk about it because people don’t actually care.

Bianca Green: Well, once you start telling the truth, people disconnect. They like to be entertained a little bit more than they want the facts.

Dale Sky Jones: Right. If I had just said, “Cannabis,” they would’ve been entirely entertained but I was not looking to be their entertainment for the day. I hadn’t figured out how to defend myself yet, but here’s what’s so remarkable, Bianca, I never had to. This is the part that I want to get across to your listeners is all of that fear was internal. It was my own head attacking myself with all of the same stigmas.

I didn’t need anybody else to do it. I was doing it to myself to the point that I wouldn’t even tell my grandma what I was doing and then all of a sudden, she died. I didn’t even get the chance to explain to her that I might be trying to save the world over here because I couldn’t figure out how to explain to her what I was doing. It was years later that I finally got to the point of being out and being unafraid and being vocal.

I showed up to a press conference, a press conference mind you, this was not a cannabis event. This was not a smoke out. This was a … the most dangerous thing in the room were the cameras. It was a peer press conference in a hotel in San Francisco. It involved the former president of Mexico, Vicente Fox. There were a couple other people on the stage. I think Dale Gieringer was there as well as herbicide Steve DeAngelo who, when he saw me arrive, asked me if I would participate in the press conference.

I had arrived with my two-year old and I wasn’t planning on participating. He was maybe two and a half at the time. He sat in the audience with Nate Bradley of the CCIA, actually grabbed him, and he just walked around the room while the press conference was going on. He didn’t actually say anything because the kid didn’t talk until he was three and a half, so not a peep even came out of him, but he was present. He was there.

At a certain point in the middle of the press conference, he came right up, crawled into my lap and sat there while Vicente Fox was talking. I suddenly had a two-year old in my lap so I went ahead and addressed that this was also about the children. The people on the stage agreed with me that this was, “This is why I’m doing it is for the children. It’s to keep children with their families.”

After the fact, a reporter from San Francisco, instead of writing about Vicente Fox, instead of writing about his message or the message, the importance of Mexican and American relations, instead she chose to attack me for having a child involved in a marijuana event, and called it “Smoke gets in your smoke,” and said, “You know, I can’t even hear anything that they said over a two-year old being present in the room,” that “There shouldn’t have been a child in that room, certainly not during a conversation about drugs.”

I’ve got to be honest with you Bianca, I was pregnant with my second child at that point, had never experienced such vitreal from another woman. She accused me of treating my child as thought it was a bracelet, something that you accessorize, that I brought my kid with me as an accessory because apparently she’s never had to raise a child largely by herself because I wasn’t getting a paycheck. We had just been raided very recently.

When we were raided, we lost everything including a paycheck and health insurance for the very kid we were talking about there, and my husband was working six days a week to try to support the family, so I couldn’t afford childcare. It wasn’t an option for me at that time because I didn’t have anything extra and she’s attacking me for being a mother with her child present. That was probably … It knocked me to my knees.

Bianca Green: I can imagine.

Dale Sky Jones: I didn’t come back out for probably nine months after that. I was still pregnant and I felt like I was a bad person for being pregnant and talking about this at the same time. I’ve come to realize that it’s going to take women like me to do that anyway, to make it okay for everybody else.

Bianca Green: You’ve been such an amazing advocate and such an amazing face and voice for this industry and more importantly the movement before it became one. You should be very proud of everything that you’ve done. People forget often that it’s a war and there are casualties of war. I’ve fought the front lines in DC with patients who’ve died fighting for the freedom of the plant. I think you, as a female, and a lot of the females that have been coming forward throughout the years, based on people like yourself and myself coming out of the closet has really opened the compassionate side of this movement, so Mazel Tov to you for bringing your child to that event because to identify a family as not a unit because you believe in something is completely inappropriate.

Now we’re looking at it as plant-based medicine. We’re changing the narrative about it and that’s not easy. It’s not easy for conservatives to accept that. It’s not easy for people who have been hit with propaganda all of these years to understand that, and you’ve done it so gracefully. You really have. There’s a lot of really great drug war veterans but you are one of them that’s definitely led California into the place that it’s been and Oaksterdam University is famous around the globe.

One of our social media people that’s on this tour today was talking about how in high school they all wanted to go to Oaksterdam University instead of another university because they wanted to come and get cannabis education. That, in and of itself, is a huge … She’s from Virginia. That’s a huge thing. You’re making a global impact and that, I know it sucks. These people can be mean, but good at you, good on you, however that expression goes. If you really, you set the tone for other women to come out who wanted to seek alternatives and fight for people who need it the most.

Dale Sky Jones: That’s the truth I think that what made it all okay was the women that came to me after the fact. I didn’t realize that I was becoming a spokeswoman for motherhood at the same time I was being a spokeswoman for cannabis policy reform. That was, I think, the shocker to me when I realized that it was not only hand-in-hand but that my power as an advocate came because I was a mother. Not only you can’t remove them from one another, but you shouldn’t.

I’ve also realized on another level, I’m introducing a concept that I never believed in myself as a young entrepreneur, as a young person. I’m 41 now, and I went straight into corporate at 18, actually 15, but I didn’t get the titles until 18. You start to realize that there are no babies in corporate, there’s no crying in corporate, there’s no crying in baseball. There’s a few things that you are and aren’t allowed to do, but you’re certainly not allowed to be a mom out loud when you’re in any of these scenarios.

I realized that the young women and young men that I hire today that watch me, I didn’t have a choice at the time. I was working from home like I was supposed to when my first child was born. I took a leave of absence for maternity and then I just came back to work one day a week and did everything from home or phone. When the raid happened, I had to be present. I had to show up which meant I had to strap the baby on and go to work because I didn’t have anywhere or anyone to leave him with.

We didn’t have family, so it was just me, my husband and my baby. Now I look back and realize that all of these young people that have worked for me since 2012, since the raid at the very least, since that happened-

Bianca Green: The Oaksterdam raid.

Dale Sky Jones: Right. We’ve been here since 2007. Right, the raid it was right down the street, the big … It was actually six locations were raided simultaneously. At that point of the raid, when you do what you have to do because there’s no options, I just introduced to a whole other group of people that the new concept of working mom is that you can actually bring your kid to work with you. I have a baby run in my office, and when people come for meetings with me, there’s often a nanny and a kid present. People get accustomed to that. The first time it’s a little bit weird, but I’ve actually found it gives better meetings. It brings out the best in people to have kids around.

Bianca Green: Well, we had that time where we interviewed Gavin Newsom. I interviewed Gavin Newsom and you were there with Jackson, right?

Dale Sky Jones: I think it was Jesse actually.

Bianca Green: Jesse?

Dale Sky Jones: Jesse was strapped on.

Bianca Green: Jesse was your youngest, strapped on. He was only like two months, if, and you were standing behind the camera manning it.

Dale Sky Jones: I know, and I’m trying to keep the baby from cooing into the microphone while we were interviewing Gavin Newsom.

Bianca Green: Yeah, because that’s how advocacy goes.

Dale Sky Jones: Bootstrap.

Bianca Green: It’s very bootstrap. Now we’re getting a lot more attention on it because it’s popular, but that was only two years ago.

Dale Sky Jones: It’s kind of hard to believe.

Bianca Green: It’s really hard to believe how far it’s come. I really like having the elevated conversation about the entrepreneurialism and I appreciate it but I think it’s important for people to understand where we came from, the challenges we still face and where we’re headed. Speak to that a little bit. Do you have any advice for inspiring entrepreneurs?

Dale Sky Jones: Well, I know here at Oaksterdam, what we always try to talk to people about, and it’s after four days of intensive training, so we’ve filled your five pound brain with ten pounds of information, just stuffing it in the ear at that point by the end, but there’s a couple of things that I really try to impart to the students because folks come to us for so many different reasons. Sometimes it’s very personal, they’re trying to help someone very close to them or themselves in some cases.

In others, it’s very entrepreneurial. They’re trying to figure out either, whatever industry they used to be a part of has collapsed or they’ve realized that the best way to get ahead in their current industry is to figure out how to also cater to the cannabis industry as an ancillary option. We train gladiators here at Oaksterdam, and when I say “gladiator” this is a trained fighter. Our gladiators are often first through the wall.

They sometimes get the most bloody. They sometimes make the most money, but in that process of training them how to fight, I ask them to do two things: say, “Please, please, as you move forward, you need to show up and that means show up to vote and once you show up to vote, you get called for jury duty and you need to show up to that, too.”

Bianca Green: Civic duties.

Dale Sky Jones: That’s actually, that is the big one. Then when you get jury duty, you sit and you pray to get that marijuana case.

Bianca Green: That must be really hard because a lot of advocates and a lot of people who I know that are getting into this industry are revolutionists to some degree and they are against the system to … I don’t know.

Dale Sky Jones: Well, some are and I dare say that some of the inspiration of the industry were the very instigators that you speak of, but a lot of the folks that are coming in now think of themselves as otherwise law-abiding citizens. They’re just practicing a little political discord by tip toeing into the cannabis industry. They don’t even realize how illegal it really is.

Unless you are part of the national discussion, unless you are part of moving the national issue forward, and when I say “national” I mean act of congress to legalize cannabis because right now, we are looking at a policy decision and a change in the face of the White House, a change in the face of some of these elected positions, a change in the Attorney General can entirely change the face of everything that we are looking at right now, entirely.

God forbid it’s President Trump with an AG Christie in there. Although I think Christie’s probably ruined it for himself by now, but at the end of the day, if you are not part of the federal discussion and there’s only two groups really genuinely working on the national conversation and that’s Americans For Safe Access For Patients and the National Cannabis Industry Association For Business, and if you’re not part of one of those two groups and tithing to at least one or both of those two groups, if you’re not part of that solution, you are part of the problem and you’re barely above the ostrich awaiting the fate of the dinosaur. The second thing that I ask people to do other than show up, which is really most of it-

Bianca Green: Because that’s the biggest thing, showing up.

Dale Sky Jones: Well, showing up, oh my God, and it’s the hardest part.

Bianca Green: Power numbers, it’s an important thing.

Dale Sky Jones: Very … It sounds simple but it’s not. That’s why I remind people, “Show up.” It’s just it’s important to do that, but the other is continue to advocate. In advocating, that means both advocating up and down. The way I explain it to them is you have to continue to advocate up to your elected officials, to the thought leaders, that we have responsibilities.

Don’t say the word “recreational” because that makes it sound fun for kids. We don’t want this to sound fun for kids, and we don’t want other parents thinking about their kids recreating when they’re walking into the voting booth either because that is not helping our cause, so let’s stop calling it recreational. Just things along those lines of being a thought leader-

Bianca Green: Responsible.

Dale Sky Jones: -and being responsible and advocating up for these things to the powers that be, so to speak, but what I leave every class with is this concept that you have to keep looking back and you have to make sure that you always advocate down as you rise yourself up in your company, in your business, and everything else, that you must advocate for the very people that got us here, that we got here on the backs of patients, and no matter what you do whether you’re the guy that gets bloody or you’re the guy that makes money, if you’re the guy that makes the most money, you had better find ways to give back whether that’s compassion programs for people that can’t afford it, or if your local boys and girls club, you have to find a way to make sure that you are leaving your community better than you found it.

Then I get a “Whoop” and cheer out of the audience and everyone says, “We’re with ya,” and out the door they go. You know what I found Bianca is every room I’ve walked into in the last few years, a third of the room is Oaksterdam alumni.

Bianca Green: That’s amazing.

Dale Sky Jones: It’s our alumni who are going out and changing the world. That’s who’s changing the laws in New York and Florida and Uruguay. This is our alumni that are coming in and learning how it’s done and they are going out and they are making it happen.

Bianca Green: Well, it’s a very impactful brand. You’re a very impactful advocate and the movement, and the newfound industry really appreciates all the hard work you’ve put into it. Tell me about some of the social responsibility you have at Oaksterdam. What is it in your own business model and then how do you encourage your students? You just sort of tapped on it, but let’s talk about it a little bit more, the social responsibility that you advocate for your students to go out and bring to the table.

Dale Sky Jones: Well, in addition to what I just mentioned and just truly encouraging people to think about how they can give back and do more, and a lot of people will. You just have to ask them. Also remembering to ask the people that you’re working with, “Hi, we’re new. We have a memo of understanding. We’re going to go do business together. I’m going to ask you what is your philosophy on this,” and trust me I do, and I find out and that’s how I decide whether or not I work with you.

Bianca Green: Yeah, me too.

Dale Sky Jones: If this is not your philosophy, you are not somebody I’m ever going to work with and you’re going to find that there’s a lot of other rather successful brands out there that will not work with you unless you have a strategy for that. The other thing that we do is try to impress upon our students that this revolution that we’re in right now, this social revolution, is the most important civil rights revolution of our time, and it’s the next iteration of what happened in the 50s.

This could be the end of the new Jim Crow. If we do this properly, we can finally disassemble the school to prison pipeline that’s currently in our country that is happening on the back of the drug war, but the reality is, if we’re not careful, we’re just simply going to usher in the next Jim Crow. That’s going to happen through our regulatory regimes.

If you look to what Florida recently did, last year they put out for five, an RFP for five businesses to apply to be cultivators. You had to have thirty years continuous in cultivation in the nursery industry in order to even apply. How many black people do you know owned a nursery thirty years ago in Florida?

Bianca Green: None.

Dale Sky Jones: How many women?

Bianca Green: None.

Dale Sky Jones: How many veterans?

Bianca Green: None.

Dale Sky Jones: So therein lies the problem. In Florida, fortunately, the Black Farmer’s Association, pardon me, sued and actually got, based on the fact that there were none, two extra permits issued, one for themselves. When you even look to Maryland, how many … I don’t think that there was a single solitary person of color, no one ethnic earned any of the permits. How is it that we’re now writing these new laws to still make impossible … These were the same people that are going to jail while there are people making money and now we have to make sure that we’re writing laws that don’t keep them out because they’ve been in jail.

These are experts, people. These are not the people we should be kicking out of the industry, but also, back to something that I said early on about small business and needing to protect small business, and I don’t mean small business like fifty and under employees. I mean micro businesses because this is where women, people of color, and veterans thrive is in small business.

Bianca Green: Absolutely.

Dale Sky Jones: Small business was 86% of our American economy last year. There’s no reason it should be any different in the cannabis industry.

Bianca Green: Well Dale, thank you so much for being with us today. It’s an honor. You and I have seen each other through a lot through this whole process. November 8th is right around the corner. It’s bitter sweet in a lot of ways, but I definitely feel like the advocacy that you and your organization that you put together, CCPR, really had insurmountable … I can’t even talk.

Dale Sky Jones: It’s true.

Bianca Green: Participation in that, and really did a lot to advocate for things in that initiative, so congratulations to you on all of the efforts that you’ve put forth and keeping Oaksterdam alive even after a raid. It’s pretty amazing. It’s pretty amazing. Can you tell me where people can find you?

Dale Sky Jones: Well, you can find me at Oaksterdam.com. We’re also at ReformCA.com, but I think Oaksterdam.com is probably the best place to go, O-A-K-S-T-E-R-D-A-M.

Bianca Green: Your semesters, how does that work if people want to get involved?

Dale Sky Jones: You can come take classes one of two ways. We do have a very comprehensive program in the semester form. There’s two different courses: the classic course which covers a little bit of everything and then we developed a specific horticulture course that really does a deep dive on both indoor and outdoor. If you’re unable to come for fourteen full weeks, we also have the express program, if you will.

You can come and take a seminar in four days and so you get most of the materials that you would in a semester condensed into four days. The only difference is with horticulture, if you want outdoor, you do have to come to the semester. We just focus on indoor in the seminar. We also have a seminar coming up here Las Vegas November 11th and then we’re taking a bite of the Big Apple at the beginning of December as well.

Bianca Green: Oh, that’s wonderful. Expanding.

Dale Sky Jones: Yes, so you don’t have to come to us. We come to you. We’ll be online next year so you can just come to Oaksterdam in your underwear. No, you can’t actually come through my doors in your underwear. You can sit on your couch online.

Bianca Green: That’s wonderful. Well, thank you so much. We want to keep in touch with you, and keep track of your progress with Oaksterdam and keep us informed on where you guys are at.

Dale Sky Jones: Absolutely, and make sure you get out and vote. Nothing is inevitable. Thank you.

Bianca Green: We know that. We talked about that a lot. Nothing is inevitable. It is-

Dale Sky Jones: I’ve worked way too damn hard for inevitable.

Bianca Green: Yeah. Yeah, we’re not leaving it up to people who aren’t being active, right?

Dale Sky Jones: Show up.

Bianca Green: Show up.

Dale Sky Jones: Show up.

Bianca Green: That’s how it works.

Dale Sky Jones: Thank you Bianca.

Bianca Green: Thank you Dale.

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